>>> and sources in the obama administration tell nbc news the argument -- that 43 catholic institutii institutions are using to sue the administration over birth control is not accurate. for most employers the mandate would not go into effect until 2013 . joining us now to talk about it via skype , erin camone, and emily hardman. also previously filed four other lawsuits challenging the mandate. thank you both for joining me. emily , i will start off with you. i was watching "hardball" last night and there is an argument out there that there was time to negotiate. there are sources within the administration who say that they were ready and willing to certainly reach a compromise further than what has already been reached. so why was this suit filed now?
>> what we have is the president who has promised two separate times to make adequate accommodation, and all that the president has done is finalized the rule that was issued back in august, not a single comma was changed. and so the faith of the obama administration to accommodate religious individuals has failed. what we have is the most radical and unprecedented mandate in federal history. it's so radical not even mother teresa 's organization would qualify for the exemption in this unprecedented mandate.
>> erin, i will bring you in on that. are those accurate sframents emi statements from emily ?
>> they're already being accommodated. no one is being forced to use birth control in any way, shape, or form. religious institutions are already exempted. what's happening is the new regulations allow women to exercise their individual liberty , their religious liberty , and not be discriminated against because they happen to work for a catholic institution or because they happen to attend university or work for a university that has these catholic values. 98% of catholic women use birth control , so the idea is they should not be discriminated against simply because the catholic church follows --
>> women who work for these organizations know the principles and policies of these organizations. they know full well they do not cover birth control .
>> a lot of times the best education such as georgetown university law school , a lot of times the best option happens to be a catholic -- at this point the catholic church can convince these women to follow its own teachings, but it has failed, and as a result right now they're being discriminated against because they're having to not have the same access to health care that other --
>> access is not an issue. nine out of ten health care employee plans already cover contraception. and if you don't make enough money, you can go and get it under the title ten program. and you can go down to planned parenthood . access is not the issue.
>> i apologize. irin is via skype . obviously i think as a result of irin being on skype , this is not a fair conversation in that obviously we're having some kind of technical difficulty. if i can get you not to, emily , interrupt irin and let her finish her thought. that would provide a more substantive conversation. irin, let me play what sister simone campbell, she's the executive director of network, that's a national catholic social justice lobby. here is what she told chris matthews yesterday regarding this time line and this rush for a lawsuit.
>> i think that this is mostly related to the project that the bishops have coming out in june which they're calling the fortnight of freedom. they want to raise up this idea that we in the united states are religiously persecuted.
>> so, emily , this is sister campbell who believes that this is a notion, this is a concerted effort to present people as being religiously persecuted when we have heard from the president, we've heard from his administration , this could not be further from the truth. vice president joe biden is catholic . i mean, this continued notion that there's an unwillingness to compromise here as if the administration has taken all the ideas off the table and walked out of the room, that just isn't true, is it?
>> again, the administration has had months to make a so-called --
>> that's not what i'm asking you. i'm asking you iffed administration has shut the door and is unwilling to compromise?
>> what we have is the law before us. we can't wait for a promise or an accommodation. the law was final, and as of the end of this year, these rights will be violated. we have a constitution that protects these rights, and they have gone to court to get those vindicated.
>> irin, obviously not everyone agrees, even students at notre dame . there was an article that says at least the people this reporter spoke with were split down the middle. one student's reaction was while i respect the church's right to preach against contraception, it must permit its followers, and especially in the case of notre dame with students and faculty who are not even catholic , to disagree with that teaching especially in issues of personal health. i should point out according to this report the students surveyed were kind of split down the middle. it's been widely reported that somewhere around 90% of catholic women use contraception. so you factor all of these reality numbers in and not what some see as a fictitious story line of religious persecution .
>> well, i think it's important to note that within the catholic church there are serious divisions. right now you have the catholic church cracking down on nuns saying they are radical feminists . there are women who believe there should be more liberalism allowed. these are only 13 out of 200 diocese which you could wonder why haven't they all signed onto the case? it's clear that there's a fight here where certain elements within the catholic church are fighting for the church to be conservative, to impose its values on others you might argue, and there are women , including nuns and including the catholic health association , who supports the obama administration 's compromise who believe that, in fact, this is not the fight to pick, and that they should go onto their social justice mission.
>> irin and emily , we hope to have you both on again and have you on camera not on skype because i know this is not going anywhere and the conversation will continue. thank you very much. great pleasure.
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